MCSA or Server +

[noel123ie]

Hi there



I was wondering am I better just doing the mcsa or a mix.



Maybe do a+ and net+ which will count as an mcp.



I could do net+ and ser+ in local college and then the a+ in my own time.



I would then have one mcp(a+ and net+) and server+



Or I was wondering am I better just doing a+/net+( 1 mcp) and then keeping on mcsa route



This is whats covered in server+



Operating System Fundamentals
Windows 2000 and Network Operating Systems
Windows 2003
VMWare
Network Components and Security
TCP/IP Networking
Linux Installation and Administration
System Administration
TroubleShooting


Some exposure to linux etc



Thanks

Noel

[BosonMichael]

Originally Posted by noel123ie

I was wondering am I better just doing the mcsa or a mix.

That depends on your experience level. If you have 6 months of real-world experience administering servers, then the MCSA is a great choice. If not, you should consider the A+, Network+, and MCDST certifications.

Originally Posted by noel123ie

Maybe do a+ and net+ which will count as an mcp.

The A+ and Network+ can be used as an elective for the MCSA, but they will NOT grant you the MCP certification. The only thing that will grant you the MCP certification is taking any one of the older Microsoft exams (one from the Windows XP or Server 2003 track, not an MCTS or MCITP exam).

Originally Posted by noel123ie

I could do net+ and ser+ in local college and then the a+ in my own time.

You can save money and do ALL of them through self-study... at your own pace, on your own schedule.

Originally Posted by noel123ie

I would then have one mcp(a+ and net+) and server+

I would recommend doing the Server+ after you have some real-world experience with server administration. If you've got that, then great!

Originally Posted by noel123ie

Or I was wondering am I better just doing a+/net+( 1 mcp) and then keeping on mcsa route

I would recommend starting with A+, Network+, and MCDST. When you have about 6 months of server admin experience, I'd recommend pursuing Server+ and the MCSA. Certifications without the appropriate amount of experience are not going to be very useful to you.

[Qs]

Originally Posted by noel123ie

Hi there

I was wondering am I better just doing the mcsa or a mix.

MCSA is quite a high level Microsoft Certification so I suggest you start smaller and go for either CompTIA's A+, N+ or a MCDST if you're just starting out.

Link can be found below:-

CompTIA's A+
CompTIA's N+
MCDST

Also bear in mind that if you're aiming to burst into the IT field with no prior experience then potential employers won't look twice at you. You need both experience and qualifications. If you're going for a 1st line support role then the aforementioned links and referenced certs are the way to go.

Originally Posted by noel123ie

Maybe do a+ and net+ which will count as an mcp.

No, it doesn't. I refer you to this thread.

Originally Posted by noel123ie

I could do net+ and ser+ in local college and then the a+ in my own time.

That's a possibility. Pretty much all of the CompTIA certs can be done self-study though if you don't wish to pursue them through a college. I'd recommend going for the A+ and the N+ to start though as this will build up a knowledge base for higher level qualifications and will also bolster your CV without becoming over-certified.

Originally Posted by noel123ie

I would then have one mcp(a+ and net+) and server+

No, you wouldn't. See the aforementioned link.

Originally Posted by noel123ie

Or I was wondering am I better just doing a+/net+( 1 mcp) and then keeping on mcsa route

It's entirely up to you, we can only offer advice. (Plus.. It won't count as an MCP) The A+ and N+ is generally what the recommendation is for people wishing to obtain a 1st line support/helpdesk role though. Such roles also build up your experience for higher level jobs (2nd line etc)

Originally Posted by noel123ie

This is whats covered in server+



Operating System Fundamentals
Windows 2000 and Network Operating Systems
Windows 2003
VMWare
Network Components and Security
TCP/IP Networking
Linux Installation and Administration
System Administration
TroubleShooting



Some exposure to linux etc



Thanks

Noel

Well if that appeals to you then go for it. Any experience with servers is useful and I for one wouldn't discourage going for additional qualifications if they're beneficial to you. My recommendation though is to get some experience (volunteer for IT related roles - helping out at your local college etc) and put it on your CV, and concentrate on smaller fish (A+, N+ etc) before going after the whales (MCSA).

Don't ya just love metaphors?

Hope this helps.

Qs

[Qs]

Michael! Curse you and your better than average typing speed! I now have to scroll down a lot more to read my reply

Qs

[BosonMichael]

Originally Posted by Qs

Michael! Curse you and your better than average typing speed! I now have to scroll down a lot more to read my reply

Qs

You can't always be first, my friend. ;) Not with Mr. Speedy Fingers over here across the pond.

Would it help if I repped your post? Sorry, couldn't resist! heehee!!!

[Qs]

Originally Posted by BosonMichael

You can't always be first, my friend. ;) Not with Mr. Speedy Fingers over here across the pond.

Would it help if I repped your post? Sorry, couldn't resist! heehee!!!

*sulks*

... I found it quite scary how similar our replies were as a matter of fact. I swear it's the wireless that slowed down my posting speed *grr*

[noel123ie]

Hi

I already work in an IT company(call centre) and have a diploma in IT support so have a good basic knowledge of networks

Would the mcsa not look better on a cv?

Thanks
Noel

[wagnerk]

Originally Posted by noel123ie

Hi

I already work in an IT company(call centre) and have a diploma in IT support so have a good basic knowledge of networks

Would the mcsa not look better on a cv?

Thanks
Noel

The MCSA is geared towards people that meet the below:

Originally Posted by Microsoft

Candidates for the MCSA on Windows Server 2003 certification typically have 6 to 12 months of experience administering client and network operating systems. They are knowledgeable about implementing, managing, and maintaining the typically complex computing environment of mid-sized to large companies.

And not just 6 months on helpdesk. Professional certifications aren't to be used as a short-cut or a replacement for experience at that level. Unfortunately because lots of people are gaining these certifications that are there to validate your experience, alot of managers (including myself) are now over-looking these certs if your work experience doesn't back them up.

Sorry to be harsh, but in the classes that I've taught in the last academic year, I've had MCSA's & MCSE's that had these creds but were absolutely clueless when it came to do the simple things like joining a PC to a domain.

-Ken

[BosonMichael]

Originally Posted by noel123ie

Hi

I already work in an IT company(call centre) and have a diploma in IT support so have a good basic knowledge of networks

Would the mcsa not look better on a cv?

Thanks
Noel

Not if you don't have experience, no. In fact, being overcertified for your experience level can actually hurt, not help, your chances of getting a job. Employers with MCSA-level jobs won't hire you because you have the experience, and employers with entry-level jobs may not hire you because they really don't need someone with MCSA-level qualifications to do an entry-level job. Thus, you can put yourself into an unemployable situation (unless you leave the MCSA off your resume - and if that's the case, why pursue it at this stage of your career?).

[noel123ie]

Hi there

I also went to local college and saw a presentation on CCNA

I was very impressed with the lecturer and also I would have covered some of this on my diploma course

I also see CCNA on alot of job ads

Any help would be great
Noel

[BosonMichael]

Originally Posted by noel123ie

Hi there

I also went to local college and saw a presentation on CCNA

I was very impressed with the lecturer and also I would have covered some of this on my diploma course

I also see CCNA on alot of job ads

Any help would be great
Noel

In my opinion, the CCNA is even MORE advanced than the MCSA - it's designed for people who are starting to get some real-world network administration experience with Cisco devices. It will not be of much use to you at the beginning of your IT career.

Sounds like you're trying to find a "shortcut" or "fast track" in IT. The problem with that is... unless you've got an uncle who is an IT manager, there really *isn't* a shortcut. You start out with an entry-level IT job, and you work your way up. And to get an entry-level job, you need entry-level certifications, such as the A+, Network+, and MCDST. If you want to get a job as an IT tech, there aren't any other certifications that will help you out other than those three when you're just starting out.

Best of luck to you!

[noel123ie]

Hi there

Thanks for all the info guys

Spoke to guy in college who give CCNA- this is a government college so this guy makes nothing from this

He also had 62 people for 38 places so no reason for him to push me towards course.

I asked him whether i would have knowledge required to complete course and he said yes as part of diploma.

So i decided to go with this- in the meantime I have 1 year to get a job on helpdesk etc so I will not be someone ccna certified with no practical experience.

Thanks
Noel

[BosonMichael]

Originally Posted by noel123ie

Hi there

Thanks for all the info guys

Spoke to guy in college who give CCNA- this is a government college so this guy makes nothing from this

He also had 62 people for 38 places so no reason for him to push me towards course.

I asked him whether i would have knowledge required to complete course and he said yes as part of diploma.

So i decided to go with this- in the meantime I have 1 year to get a job on helpdesk etc so I will not be someone ccna certified with no practical experience.

Thanks
Noel

If you're getting a job on helpdesk, then even after a year, you won't likely have any practical experience with Cisco. Administering Cisco routers is a network admin responsibility... about three steps past helpdesk. (help desk > desktop support > server admin > network admin)

[fatp]

Originally Posted by BosonMichael

If you're getting a job on helpdesk, then even after a year, you won't likely have any practical experience with Cisco. Administering Cisco routers is a network admin responsibility... about three steps past helpdesk. (help desk > desktop support > server admin > network admin)

I never did the 'helpdesk'; I got a 'desktop support' job for my first and current job.

So the way I see it:

(1) 1st line support - (call centre environment) / Desktop Support (onsite) - around the same level of expertise who escalate to...
(2) 2nd Line Support / Network Technician - more knowledgale folks who escalate to...
(3) 3rd Line Support / Server admin / Network admin - all round technical jedi master.

but obviously depends on the firm, the responsibilities of the job, people within i.t dept etc.

Also one man's second line is anothers 3rd etc.

and yes the cisco stuff is for (3) of my list.

[BosonMichael]

Originally Posted by fatp

I never did the 'helpdesk'; I got a 'desktop support' job for my first and current job.

So the way I see it:

(1) 1st line support - (call centre environment) / Desktop Support (onsite) - around the same level of expertise who escalate to...
(2) 2nd Line Support / Network Technician - more knowledgale folks who escalate to...
(3) 3rd Line Support / Server admin / Network admin - all round technical jedi master.

but obviously depends on the firm, the responsibilities of the job, people within i.t dept etc.

Also one man's second line is anothers 3rd etc.

and yes the cisco stuff is for (3) of my list.

Yes, you can get a desktop support job as your first job. Some employers want experienced desktop support techs; others will hire people without experience for those jobs. So you are correct... what some companies deem as 1st line/2nd line/3rd line can differ. That said, there are just some jobs that are always gonna be 3rd line jobs, as you also correctly stated.