Guns in America

[IThurts]

thought id try and spark another healthy debate on the issue of guns in america.

Who believes they are necessary, and who believes they are obviously the reason why the US have so many unecessary deaths? Who believes they are the governments way of regulating the population (as crazy as that sounds!) Or any other thoughts?

Just after some general thoughts...

Ill start by saying that shootings/school shootings.....WELL are you *surprised*it happens??

Any general thoughts and feelings towards guns and the implementation of them in Americas society?

[BosonMichael]

We've had this discussion before, in depth. Please use the Search feature to find the relevant thread.

[simongrahamuk]

like michael said, been there done that.......

[nugget]

This is one of the 3 touchy subjects here and we've already had this one a few times .

If this starts up again, well, it was nice knowing you.

[ffreeloader]

Originally Posted by IThurts

thought id try and spark another healthy debate on the issue of guns in america.

Who believes they are necessary, and who believes they are obviously the reason why the US have so many unecessary deaths? Who believes they are the governments way of regulating the population (as crazy as that sounds!) Or any other thoughts?

Just after some general thoughts...

Ill start by saying that shootings/school shootings.....WELL are you *surprised*it happens??

Any general thoughts and feelings towards guns and the implementation of them in Americas society?

LOL. Another anti-gun nut job. Do you realize that there are towns in the US where they made it a local ordinance that every home had to have a gun? According to you everyone would have shot each other..... The fact is that where ever this has happened, the crime rate has dropped. Violent crime dropped. Home robbery rates dropped. Why? Because the criminals had to respect everyone's ability to defend themselves. It caused the risk vs reward ratio to rise to a high enough level that criminals targeted other areas and left them alone.

Cops can't, and don't, stop crime. All they can do is investigate it after the fact. Take a look at the loony laws in your country. You can't even defend your own property or person. If you do you'll be the one in trouble. Talk about loony laws.....

The fact that there are school shootings isn't because guns exist, it's because there are people who have been pushed beyond the breaking point. Most have been bullied to point where they just lose it and all they can think of revenge. If they didn't use guns they would find another way to inflict pain and suffering because most school shootings are revenge motivated.

School shootings are symptom of the societal lack of morality and kindness that comes from the heart, not evidence of the existence of guns. Tools are not, and cannot be, immoral of themselves. They are objects. Only people can be immoral and cruel. People are the problem, not guns.

There, how's that for a start to your 'healthy' debate?

[greenbrucelee]

what Freddy said.

As soon as the UK alows homeowners to protect themselves properly, and alows us to shoot tresspassers the sooner people might start waking up & acting responsibly.

Now I am not going to say anymore cos we have done it before.

[zebulebu]

Originally Posted by ffreeloader

Take a look at the loony laws in your country. You can't even defend your own property or person. If you do you'll be the one in trouble. Talk about loony laws.....

The operative part of that statement, Freddie, was 'Our Country'. Absolutely right its 'Our' country. Mind your own damn business about what goes on here - my thoughts and feelings about the laws in 'your' country are immaterial and none of my business - and I wouldn't choose to state my opinion on them. So, unless you live here, have lived here for a considerable portion of your adult life, and have paid taxes toward the upkeep of our country and its 'loony laws', keep your nose out of it.

This is a stupid, pointless subject, please can we drop it? Its topics like this that have stopped me dropping by regularly.

[Stoney]

Guns don't kill people...........



...............people kill people!

[tripwire45]

As has been said, this thread has been done before. The last time it happened, I was the one to triggered it. As Elmer Fudd might say, "Be wery, wery careful...". This sucker could get locked fast enough to make your head spin.

[Modey]

Originally Posted by ffreeloader

You can't even defend your own property or person. If you do you'll be the one in trouble. Talk about loony laws.....

No that's just your loony interpretation of it. There was a case very recently where a man thought someone was breaking into his house and he defended himself with a set of keys he picked up. He stabbed the man with them and the man died. He was totally cleared of any wrong doing. It actually turned out it was his neigbour that had come home drunk and got the wrong house.

The law states in the UK that you are allowed to use reasonable force to defend yourself / family from an intruder. Totally bonkers eh!

[ffreeloader]

Originally Posted by zebulebu

The operative part of that statement, Freddie, was 'Our Country'. Absolutely right its 'Our' country. Mind your own damn business about what goes on here - my thoughts and feelings about the laws in 'your' country are immaterial and none of my business - and I wouldn't choose to state my opinion on them. So, unless you live here, have lived here for a considerable portion of your adult life, and have paid taxes toward the upkeep of our country and its 'loony laws', keep your nose out of it.

This is a stupid, pointless subject, please can we drop it? Its topics like this that have stopped me dropping by regularly.

Zeb,

My choice of words was deliberate. It matched the OP attitude for attitude. It was as much about how the question was stated as it was the ideas expressed.

That said, you don't think I have the right to form an opinion of a law in your country? Our country seems to be moving in the same direction, and I think those kinds of laws are loony wherever they are. Any law that gives a criminal more rights than a law abiding citizen fits the description of loony. I don't care if that's in the US, the UK, France, Russia, Thailand, or wherever.

I'm sorry I offended you. That wasn't my intention.

[greenbrucelee]

Originally Posted by Modey

The law states in the UK that you are allowed to use reasonable force to defend yourself / family from an intruder. Totally bonkers eh!

That basically means pushing them out of the door and shutting it on them, I'd take a baseball bat to the intruders head and if I went to jail I went to jail. No mother****** intrudes into my property.

[ffreeloader]

Originally Posted by Modey

No that's just your loony interpretation of it. There was a case very recently where a man thought someone was breaking into his house and he defended himself with a set of keys he picked up. He stabbed the man with them and the man died. He was totally cleared of any wrong doing. It actually turned out it was his neigbour that had come home drunk and got the wrong house.

The law states in the UK that you are allowed to use reasonable force to defend yourself / family from an intruder. Totally bonkers eh!

LOL. I'll say the same thing to you I said to Zeb. Sorry you got offended. My attitude was toward the OP and it's tone, not everyone in general. Sorry you saw it that way.

[IThurts]

I dont understand why people have to be so hostile about it all, especially you freeloader. I asked a questiion, gave a little of my opinion, and asked for your opinion, why dont you try and stop with the pin-pointing and "YOUR country this/your country that" and instead just give an opinion?

I dont think its about "minding your own business" either, what the heck is wrong with having a conversation about how we think guns influence the US of A. I have nothing against the americans, my brother lives in chicago and has done for most of his life as a genetic engineer.

Stop with the defensive and just give an opinion, i and others may or may not agree with it, but thats to be expected. That is why we call it a debate.

If people cannot present themselves properly, that is hardly my fault.

Trip- if you feel you must lock this thread then please do so, but i think its a sad day when people cant discuss in a decent manner.Quite pathetic really for a forum with the level of intelligence this place is supposed to contain.

CAN I FURTHER NOTE THAT THIS WASNT SUPPOSED TO BE A UK VS USA THREAD..notice it wasnt even me that brought up anything to do with the UK.

[IThurts]

Originally Posted by ffreeloader

LOL. Another anti-gun nut job. Do you realize that there are towns in the US where they made it a local ordinance that every home had to have a gun? According to you everyone would have shot each other..... The fact is that where ever this has happened, the crime rate has dropped. Violent crime dropped. Home robbery rates dropped. Why? Because the criminals had to respect everyone's ability to defend themselves. It caused the risk vs reward ratio to rise to a high enough level that criminals targeted other areas and left them alone.

Cops can't, and don't, stop crime. All they can do is investigate it after the fact. Take a look at the loony laws in your country. You can't even defend your own property or person. If you do you'll be the one in trouble. Talk about loony laws.....

The fact that there are school shootings isn't because guns exist, it's because there are people who have been pushed beyond the breaking point. Most have been bullied to point where they just lose it and all they can think of revenge. If they didn't use guns they would find another way to inflict pain and suffering because most school shootings are revenge motivated.

School shootings are symptom of the societal lack of morality and kindness that comes from the heart, not evidence of the existence of guns. Tools are not, and cannot be, immoral of themselves. They are objects. Only people can be immoral and cruel. People are the problem, not guns.

There, how's that for a start to your 'healthy' debate?

It was absolutely fine until you started to try to degrade the UK for no apparent reason in re to "loony laws in your country". Not necessary i felt. But apart from that...it was a fair enough post

I also do not agree with the whole "people are the problem" thing either.