Would employers like what they see on my CV?

[Karismah]

Hmm. I'll try to come to some sort of solution eventually, hopefully! It's now about deciding to leave my degree off my CV, or putting it on. I'm inclined to leave it off. Tough, but it wouldn't really be of much benefit having it on.

My decision to not go ahead and resit if necessary is not because I'm not bothered. I sat my exams first time last year, but I wasn't attending university. The year previous to that, I did my final year full time but situations caused me to defer my exams. So the next year, I decided to sit my exams although I was not a full time student, just had to go at the end of the year and sit the exams. I was held back doing things like finding jobs, etc. because I felt I had to finish the exams and concentrate on them. When I didn't attend university, I started to go astray, because that studying disclipline began to disappear. I made mistakes, whatever the situation was, and I ended up failing. I suddenly realised I have a chance to resit the exams the following year (this year), without being penalised, i.e. capped results. So I attempted it. Another whole year went by and I'm about to fail. If I take the exams next year (yet again - technically a second resit), I would probably have my results capped, meaning my overall results would not be enough to pass at all. But even if the results are not capped, should I really put in time to get the degree when knowing myself, I may end up just messing up all over again?

It's not that I lost interest in the subject area, but I lost interest and appreciation for the value of the degree, especially since it just continued to hold me back.

It looks bad, and it is. My fault entirely for not passing, end of. But it seems it's not an option to resit. I would have loved to. But I've always had this issue (and it really does affect me) where I can't seem to concentrate on too many things at once, and if I have something singularly to concentrate on, if my discipline goes, everything just falls apart. I've learnt a few things along this little journey and it's something that I just have to live with and get on with.

Oh well...

[onoski]

Originally Posted by Karismah

Hmm. I'll try to come to some sort of solution eventually, hopefully! It's now about deciding to leave my degree off my CV, or putting it on. I'm inclined to leave it off. Tough, but it wouldn't really be of much benefit having it on.

My decision to not go ahead and resit if necessary is not because I'm not bothered. I sat my exams first time last year, but I wasn't attending university. The year previous to that, I did my final year full time but situations caused me to defer my exams. So the next year, I decided to sit my exams although I was not a full time student, just had to go at the end of the year and sit the exams. I was held back doing things like finding jobs, etc. because I felt I had to finish the exams and concentrate on them. When I didn't attend university, I started to go astray, because that studying disclipline began to disappear. I made mistakes, whatever the situation was, and I ended up failing. I suddenly realised I have a chance to resit the exams the following year (this year), without being penalised, i.e. capped results. So I attempted it. Another whole year went by and I'm about to fail. If I take the exams next year (yet again - technically a second resit), I would probably have my results capped, meaning my overall results would not be enough to pass at all. But even if the results are not capped, should I really put in time to get the degree when knowing myself, I may end up just messing up all over again?

It's not that I lost interest in the subject area, but I lost interest and appreciation for the value of the degree, especially since it just continued to hold me back.

It looks bad, and it is. My fault entirely for not passing, end of. But it seems it's not an option to resit. I would have loved to. But I've always had this issue (and it really does affect me) where I can't seem to concentrate on too many things at once, and if I have something singularly to concentrate on, if my discipline goes, everything just falls apart. I've learnt a few things along this little journey and it's something that I just have to live with and get on with.

Oh well...

Hi Karismah, you can do this and get your degree done and completed once and for all. I once had a resit at uni and had to wait a year but I was determined and did get it done. You're young so go for it and don't let anything distract you as the only set back is you.

I'd get it done and finished with, and remember nothing is easy and failure for me is just not an option. This is not to say that I've not failed in the past just that I'd try to pass the next time and the next time till I get through. However, ultimately the choice is yours. Best wishes

[BosonMichael]

Originally Posted by Karismah

But even if the results are not capped, should I really put in time to get the degree when knowing myself, I may end up just messing up all over again?

How is this confidence in your abilities? Overcome the fear and doubt. You'll encounter ***many*** situations in IT where you don't think you can handle something.

But you can.

If you think you'll fail... you likely will.

Originally Posted by Karismah

It's not that I lost interest in the subject area, but I lost interest and appreciation for the value of the degree, especially since it just continued to hold me back.

You simply didn't know that you don't need a degree to get into IT. So, get into IT, and eventually finish up that degree. If you don't do it there, do it elsewhere. Whatever it takes... just knock it out. And have confidence! You can do it!

Originally Posted by Karismah

It looks bad, and it is. My fault entirely for not passing, end of. But it seems it's not an option to resit. I would have loved to. But I've always had this issue (and it really does affect me) where I can't seem to concentrate on too many things at once, and if I have something singularly to concentrate on, if my discipline goes, everything just falls apart. I've learnt a few things along this little journey and it's something that I just have to live with and get on with.

I don't know much about the college system in the UK... but in the US, you wouldn't have these silly restrictions you seem to have at your college. Have you considered other university options?

If you can't concentrate on many things at once, you might have difficulty in IT. I can't begin to count the number of times I've had to multitask several different problems or several different projects at once... it's usually the norm, not the exception.

It sounds like you're rationalizing your failure rather than overcoming your problem. Don't allow yourself to be ruled by what you perceive to be your limitations. Overcome them!!! The only thing holding you back is you... seriously. Work on it! Otherwise, you've let it defeat you... and worse, you've let it define you.

[Karismah]

Originally Posted by onoski

Hi Karismah, you can do this and get your degree done and completed once and for all. I once had a resit at uni and had to wait a year but I was determined and did get it done. You're young so go for it and don't let anything distract you as the only set back is you.

I'd get it done and finished with, and remember nothing is easy and failure for me is just not an option. This is not to say that I've not failed in the past just that I'd try to pass the next time and the next time till I get through. However, ultimately the choice is yours. Best wishes

Originally Posted by BosonMichael

How is this confidence in your abilities? Overcome the fear and doubt. You'll encounter ***many*** situations in IT where you don't think you can handle something.

But you can.

If you think you'll fail... you likely will.



You simply didn't know that you don't need a degree to get into IT. So, get into IT, and eventually finish up that degree. If you don't do it there, do it elsewhere. Whatever it takes... just knock it out. And have confidence! You can do it!



I don't know much about the college system in the UK... but in the US, you wouldn't have these silly restrictions you seem to have at your college. Have you considered other university options?

If you can't concentrate on many things at once, you might have difficulty in IT. I can't begin to count the number of times I've had to multitask several different problems or several different projects at once... it's usually the norm, not the exception.

It sounds like you're rationalizing your failure rather than overcoming your problem. Don't allow yourself to be ruled by what you perceive to be your limitations. Overcome them!!! The only thing holding you back is you... seriously. Work on it! Otherwise, you've let it defeat you... and worse, you've let it define you.

I think everyone is right. I always seem to be making excuses for failures just to console myself, when really, it's all nothing but a result of my poor attitude towards things. I always had a poor attitude towards my degree, and paid the price. To be honest, if I dont change myself, I don't see myself going anywhere because this seems to be my problem for everything - trying hard, and if I fail or am not doing well enough, I give up and try to give myself excuses to kid myself that the failure was acceptable. This eventually backfires on me.

Thanks onoski for the wishes. Congratulations on your efforts and success. And Michael, you're right when you say I am trying to rationalise my failure. But I had my chances and I messed them up.

Here is my journey through my university, year by year, till now (note it should have only lasted 3 years):

1. Started first year - passed
2. Started second year - passed
3. Took a gap year
4. Returned to 3rd and final year - passed all project work, but didn't sit exams due to certain reasons so deferred them
5. Sat my deferred exams from previous year (my final year exams) - failed
6. NOW - resat final year exams - failed again

If my university allow me, then I can resit. If they don't, then what? I have no choice in that matter, and having checked the regulations, I am convinced that they would not allow me to resit.

So, what do I do? Michael, do you mean restart my degree elsewhere hence defeating my daemons and succeeding in the long struggle to graduate? I can leave it and move on, but that means I'm just burying unfinished business, and my attitude may not change till I finally finish "a" degree.

Without a choice in the matter, I would have to just get on with a career in IT from scratch, with no way to get my degree in the current situation, leaving me with no ammunition in my CV.

Although I sound as though I've given up, I feel I'm at a situation (with only myself to blame of course) where I've hit the end of the road in my chances to graduate. I thought there may be one tiny possibility to resit and finish it, but I wondered if it was worth it. You guys made me realise it WILL be worth it so instead of accepting the defeat, I could try to resit it one more time. Unfortunately, university policies would completely erase that tiny possibility to do a resit. I've emailed my tutor to see what possibilities I have. If I don't have an opportunity to resit, my only chance to get a degree is to restart fresh, and I don't think that's worth it at all. So I'm disappointed with myself, and accept blame, but I don't see anyway to rectify it. I can only move on with things. I just need to fix things, and can only do that by getting my certs - A+, Network+ and MCDST, and getting a job, and working my way up. My degree will haunt me now and then because it was an achievement just waiting to be grabbed. I didn't reach hard enough for it.

That's the only thing I can do...isn't it?

PS: What's the easiest way to quote from multiple posts in one single post? Do I have to manually put quote tags in, etc. or is there a way of manually selecting quotes and automatically inserting them into a new post?

[BosonMichael]

Originally Posted by Karismah

Thanks onoski for the wishes. Congratulations on your efforts and success. And Michael, you're right when you say I am trying to rationalise my failure. But I had my chances and I messed them up.

You still have future chances. If you don't try to correct your mistake, the mistake will remain uncorrected - it won't fix itself! Thus, the only way to truly fail is to give up.

Originally Posted by Karismah

Here is my journey through my university, year by year, till now (note it should have only lasted 3 years):

1. Started first year - passed
2. Started second year - passed
3. Took a gap year
4. Returned to 3rd and final year - passed all project work, but didn't sit exams due to certain reasons so deferred them
5. Sat my deferred exams from previous year (my final year exams) - failed
6. NOW - resat final year exams - failed again

If my university allow me, then I can resit. If they don't, then what? I have no choice in that matter, and having checked the regulations, I am convinced that they would not allow me to resit.

Doesn't matter how long it SHOULD have taken. You're letting that rule you. The only thing that matters is getting it finished.

If I told you that you should be able to pass the A+ exams within a year, and you fail them repeatedly until the year is up, should you just stop trying? Should you stop trying after two years? Or three? No... because once you pass, you hold that certification. Same with your degree!

Have you contacted the university administration? Not just read the regulations... but discussed this matter with them? Let them know that you're serious about completing it. See what they say! The worst they can say is no... which is no different than if you had not asked them at all. And they might just help you out.

Originally Posted by Karismah

So, what do I do? Michael, do you mean restart my degree elsewhere hence defeating my daemons and succeeding in the long struggle to graduate? I can leave it and move on, but that means I'm just burying unfinished business, and my attitude may not change till I finally finish "a" degree.

Whatever it takes to get that degree knocked out. Might mean you pass the few exams you lack... might mean you try again the next summer... might mean you finish your degree at a different university... might mean you start over from scratch (though it's unlikely you'd have to start over from scratch).

Defeating your demons often involves attacking them head-on. Convince yourself you CAN do it! Millions of people have done it before you, and millions of people will do it after you. You're *not* less intelligent or less capable as every one of them. I can tell by your well-crafted writing.

Originally Posted by Karismah

Without a choice in the matter, I would have to just get on with a career in IT from scratch, with no way to get my degree in the current situation, leaving me with no ammunition in my CV.

Plenty of people have gotten their first IT job without a degree. In fact, most of them *don't* have a degree! You'll simply be in the same boat as they're in.

Originally Posted by Karismah

Although I sound as though I've given up, I feel I'm at a situation (with only myself to blame of course) where I've hit the end of the road in my chances to graduate.

You can graduate up until the point you don't have breath left in your body. The only thing that will prevent you from graduating is you, if you decide to give up.

Originally Posted by Karismah

I thought there may be one tiny possibility to resit and finish it, but I wondered if it was worth it. You guys made me realise it WILL be worth it so instead of accepting the defeat, I could try to resit it one more time.

Or two more times. Or twelve more times. When you stop is up to you.

Originally Posted by Karismah

Unfortunately, university policies would completely erase that tiny possibility to do a resit. I've emailed my tutor to see what possibilities I have. If I don't have an opportunity to resit, my only chance to get a degree is to restart fresh, and I don't think that's worth it at all.

Would it? It'd be a cake walk, considering you've sat everything before! It'd cost money... but perhaps you'd get an employer to subsidize your education expenses.

Why not contact the university administration directly instead of relying on second-hand information from a tutor?

Originally Posted by Karismah

So I'm disappointed with myself, and accept blame, but I don't see anyway to rectify it. I can only move on with things. I just need to fix things, and can only do that by getting my certs - A+, Network+ and MCDST, and getting a job, and working my way up. My degree will haunt me now and then because it was an achievement just waiting to be grabbed. I didn't reach hard enough for it.

That's the only thing I can do...isn't it?

Stop looking at who to cast blame upon and start focusing on how to rectify the situation. Blame doesn't fix the problem... it just makes you feel bad.

You're right - you can only move on with things. Focusing on the past won't help you to do that. Focus on the future. Who cares that it took you six years? Who cares that you didn't pursue things hard enough? The only thing that matters is learning from your mistakes... not wallowing in them and dwelling on them. Simply refuse to do what you did before.

You *can* still reach your goal. It might not be in the way that you had envisoned it... it might not be as quickly as you had envisoned it... it might not be at the university where you had envisioned it... but you CAN reach your goal.

Originally Posted by Karismah

PS: What's the easiest way to quote from multiple posts in one single post? Do I have to manually put quote tags in, etc. or is there a way of manually selecting quotes and automatically inserting them into a new post?

I manually put the quote tags in.

[Karismah]

Originally Posted by BosonMichael

You still have future chances. If you don't try to correct your mistake, the mistake will remain uncorrected - it won't fix itself! Thus, the only way to truly fail is to give up.

I agree. True failure is when one gives up.

Originally Posted by BosonMichael

Doesn't matter how long it SHOULD have taken. You're letting that rule you. The only thing that matters is getting it finished.

If I told you that you should be able to pass the A+ exams within a year, and you fail them repeatedly until the year is up, should you just stop trying? Should you stop trying after two years? Or three? No... because once you pass, you hold that certification. Same with your degree!

It is difficult to accept it took me so long to do something that shouldn't take so long, but I guess I'm just talking relative to other peoples achievements when I should focus solely on my own. Also, I'm just so apprehensive about potential employer judgements based on CV gaps. But again, the right "can do" attitude should deminish any fears.

Originally Posted by BosonMichael

Whatever it takes to get that degree knocked out. Might mean you pass the few exams you lack... might mean you try again the next summer... might mean you finish your degree at a different university... might mean you start over from scratch (though it's unlikely you'd have to start over from scratch).

Next summer? Only if university allows it. Different university? Haven't tried that, though based on experience and university structures, not sure if that would be possible at all... worth a try I guess... Start from scratch? Now you really feel that it's worth starting from scratch simply to "not" fail when I can just leave it and still eventually succeed in IT? Is it simply so I never allow it to haunt me in the future? Obviously, the knowledge would not really be the issue. I can learn without a degree, but it's the achievement of the degree that is so worth it at the end.

Originally Posted by BosonMichael

Defeating your demons often involves attacking them head-on. Convince yourself you CAN do it! Millions of people have done it before you, and millions of people will do it after you. You're *not* less intelligent or less capable as every one of them. I can tell by your well-crafted writing.

I guess this degree is more than just another qualification now. I guess it's more a personal obstacle to overcome and passing it will really be a true achievement for myself. Thank you for the vote of confidence. I have belief in myself and my potential, but sometimes I just feel I'm a dreamer because of my failures and not really meant to be up there. I didn't realise I can write at all, and I started to really have my self belief and worth etched away from me over the recent years. You seem to be able to motivate people very well with your positivity. Pretty persuasive too. So persuasive, you got me starting to think about potentially restarting a course afresh. Gosh. I hope another university allows me to do the final year with them. Would be amazing.

Originally Posted by BosonMichael

Plenty of people have gotten their first IT job without a degree. In fact, most of them *don't* have a degree! You'll simply be in the same boat as they're in.

I accept that and that is why I wasn't THAT worried about my degree, because I felt I could still do well enough eventually, though the road would be far more longer and rougher.

Originally Posted by BosonMichael

You can graduate up until the point you don't have breath left in your body. The only thing that will prevent you from graduating is you, if you decide to give up.

Or two more times. Or twelve more times. When you stop is up to you.

True. Some things are out of our hands, but anything we can personally and physically complete is within our hands.

Originally Posted by BosonMichael

Would it? It'd be a cake walk, considering you've sat everything before! It'd cost money... but perhaps you'd get an employer to subsidize your education expenses.

Why not contact the university administration directly instead of relying on second-hand information from a tutor?

Money is certainly going to be an issue. I'll just have to see. My tutor is the first point of contact. He's the departmental tutor and the main to go to for any problems. He is "the administration" per se.

Originally Posted by BosonMichael

Stop looking at who to cast blame upon and start focusing on how to rectify the situation. Blame doesn't fix the problem... it just makes you feel bad.

You're right - you can only move on with things. Focusing on the past won't help you to do that. Focus on the future. Who cares that it took you six years? Who cares that you didn't pursue things hard enough? The only thing that matters is learning from your mistakes... not wallowing in them and dwelling on them. Simply refuse to do what you did before.

You *can* still reach your goal. It might not be in the way that you had envisoned it... it might not be as quickly as you had envisoned it... it might not be at the university where you had envisioned it... but you CAN reach your goal.

I'm beginning to think I need advice like this constantly coming at me in order to pursue things. Maybe I'm not as self-motivated as I thought. I usually go astray if left with me. Need to change that. First step to improvement? Recognising mistakes, it's good to see where I go wrong.

I'll wait for university to get back to me. If they say no, I'll try other universities. If they say no, I'll think long and hard about the financial implications of starting a new degree. I may consider Open Uni. Either way, I'm going to make it.

Originally Posted by BosonMichael

I manually put the quote tags in.

Thanks.

PS: Boson NetSims are from your company right? Such a small world, only two - three years ago, I came across your software, and my employer and I were recommending it to many people, and here I am getting careers advice from the guy behind it all. Who would've thought that?

[BosonMichael]

Originally Posted by Karismah

Next summer? Only if university allows it. Different university? Haven't tried that, though based on experience and university structures, not sure if that would be possible at all... worth a try I guess... Start from scratch? Now you really feel that it's worth starting from scratch simply to "not" fail when I can just leave it and still eventually succeed in IT? Is it simply so I never allow it to haunt me in the future? Obviously, the knowledge would not really be the issue. I can learn without a degree, but it's the achievement of the degree that is so worth it at the end.

Ultimately, the choice to continue the degree is up to you. Do you HAVE to get a degree? No. Should you? Only you can answer that. If you don't, that's fine... the point is, don't beat yourself up over it if you choose to not get it.

The good thing is this: either decision you make - whether you decide to continue or not, or whether you decide to continue the degree immediately or not - is a good decision. But make the decision for the right reasons. Don't decide to stop your degree pursuit JUST because you think you'll fail. If you must, stop it for a legitimate reason... fear of failure is not a legitimate reason. Discontinuing the degree because you don't think you need it to succeed IS a legitimate reason. ;) Know what I'm trying to say?

Originally Posted by Karismah

I guess this degree is more than just another qualification now. I guess it's more a personal obstacle to overcome and passing it will really be a true achievement for myself. Thank you for the vote of confidence. I have belief in myself and my potential, but sometimes I just feel I'm a dreamer because of my failures and not really meant to be up there. I didn't realise I can write at all, and I started to really have my self belief and worth etched away from me over the recent years. You seem to be able to motivate people very well with your positivity. Pretty persuasive too. So persuasive, you got me starting to think about potentially restarting a course afresh. Gosh. I hope another university allows me to do the final year with them. Would be amazing.

Thank you. You wouldn't believe how many times people on forums tell me that I'm pessimistic... when actually, I'm very realistic. If I didn't think it was possible for you to succeed, I'd tell you so. For example, when you said you wanted to put the failed degree on your CV, I told you, realistically, what I thought would happen. I didn't fill you full of sunshine and happiness and wish you well... I told you that I thought you'd encounter a negative result.

The thing is... I don't think you need someone filling you full of false motivation. You need someone filling you full of REAL motivation. You are helped far more by someone telling you the truth than by someone telling you what you want to hear (and to be honest, some people don't want to hear the truth). And that's what I attempt to provide to you and to everyone else on this forum. What do I get for it? Seeing you guys succeed. That's SO worth it to me.

Originally Posted by Karismah

I accept that and that is why I wasn't THAT worried about my degree, because I felt I could still do well enough eventually, though the road would be far more longer and rougher.

Far more? Eh, I don't know whether it'll be FAR more difficult, but it'll be more difficult. A degree certainly gives you a slight edge over your competition, just like certifications give you a slight edge. In any case, the first IT job will be the hardest to get. Once you get a little real-world experience under your belt, you instantly become more valuable and more employable. Real-world experience beats certifications and degrees. A degree shows that you can stick to a course of study and complete it. A certification shows that you have enough theoretical technical knowledge to pass an exam. But experience shows that you have actually DONE a job before... and thus, is *much* more valuable than degrees or certifications.

Originally Posted by Karismah

Money is certainly going to be an issue. I'll just have to see. My tutor is the first point of contact. He's the departmental tutor and the main to go to for any problems. He is "the administration" per se.

Ah, gotcha. Glad to hear that you're going to the right source.

Originally Posted by Karismah

I'm beginning to think I need advice like this constantly coming at me in order to pursue things. Maybe I'm not as self-motivated as I thought. I usually go astray if left with me. Need to change that. First step to improvement? Recognising mistakes, it's good to see where I go wrong.

THAT is what this forum is for, my friend. Encouragement, advice, motivation, direction. And not just from me. Everyone on this forum can provide something, with each bringing a slightly different perspective. As can you. There's someone - or many someones - out there who is experiencing the same thing you are... and your story is helping THEM to get direction. You may think you are the only one getting help with this forum post... but your words may be motivating others who are having the exact same difficulties you are. Happens all the time on here.

So when you need something... post about it. You never know who will be there ready to assist... and who else you may be helping who is just too shy to post about their problems.

Originally Posted by Karismah

I'll wait for university to get back to me. If they say no, I'll try other universities. If they say no, I'll think long and hard about the financial implications of starting a new degree. I may consider Open Uni. Either way, I'm going to make it.

Yep. And whether or not you ever get your degree... you're going to make it!!! You don't NEED the degree. But you don't HAVE to give up, either. See what I'm sayin? ;) YOU are in control!!! You choose whether you think it's worth it to continue or not. You make the decisions for the right reasons. You shouldn't let fear control your decisions. You should let logic control your decisions.

Originally Posted by Karismah

PS: Boson NetSims are from your company right? Such a small world, only two - three years ago, I came across your software, and my employer and I were recommending it to many people, and here I am getting careers advice from the guy behind it all. Who would've thought that?

Yes. NetSim is our Cisco router simulator product. I work on the ExSim product line, which are exam simulations - practice exams that show if you're ready for the real thing. I'm only one guy "behind it all"... there are several more of us behind the scenes, not just me. In fact, I arrived at Boson only a year ago, after being persuaded to join the company by a co-worker who used to work at Transcender, where I worked for a number of years. I've also been a network administrator for a number of years, so I've been in the same shoes that you guys are in. I know what you guys need to succeed, cause I've been there.

I enjoyed being a network admin... but I enjoy passing my knowledge on through my writing even more. Why would I rather write? If I'm an admin, I help a company. If I write, I can help you guys succeed. That's worth a LOT to me. And... the paycheck isn't bad, either. ;)

[kevicho]

Just a quick question, do the credits you received from your modules at least enable you to pass HND, with an option to finishing in the future?

May be worth looking into, and then at least it wont look like you have nothing for all the hard work you have put in.

[Karismah]

Originally Posted by kevicho

Just a quick question, do the credits you received from your modules at least enable you to pass HND, with an option to finishing in the future?

May be worth looking into, and then at least it wont look like y