Would employers like what they see on my CV?

[Karismah]

Dear all,

I stumbled upon this site out of nowhere a few days ago, and since then, I've been really impressed by the standards of realistic advice and insights into IT certifications and careers.

I'm at a pretty low point in my career, if one even exists that is.

Up to the age of 18, I was always academically really strong, and I mean straight A's. I always thought that education would never be an issue for me and that once I hit 22, I would have graduated, done a post grad and that I'd be in a great job doing great things for a great company. Unfortunately, life is never as you plan or imagine it and my case is no different.

I started my degree, but had lots of issues in between, took gap years, missed exams through illness, failed a year, etc. It has taken me 6 years to complete a 3 year bachelor, and here I sit, having just completed my exams, pretty certain that I'd fail the whole thing!

I have about 6-8 months IT experience (though that was a big fish small pond scenario, with multiple responsibilities and no expertise line).

I have no qualifications. I'm not certain that my employer where I had 6-8 months experience would give me any sort of reference. Plus, that experience was 2-3 years ago.

I'm currently working towards my A+ and Network+. I've studied MCP and CCNA in the past, but have never done the exams. Am pretty strong with Windows XP, Office, etc. And I'm reasonably strong with hardware.

The problem is, my degree has punched a huge hole through my CV. How would employers take that? Would they not judge me negatively?

I am "the local support guy", "on call 24-7" for any friends, friends of friends, friends of friends of friends, family, etc. who need any help with their computers or networks. I do get paid, but you can appreciate that I can't charge close friends and family members and the money is nothing to brag about and nowhere near something that anybody could live on. Though this isn't the standard professional experience, it certainly is experience for me. I've learnt a great deal. Would this be credible enough as IT experience on my CV? The worst thing is, I'm pretty confident on my stuff.

I've done up my CV, am dishing it out to recruiters and employers alike, am realistic, hard working and am more motivated than ever but fear that my degree and references may backfire on me.

Will they though? And if so, how do you advise me to go on from here?

I'd be grateful to anyone for any sort of advice they can give regarding this matter.

Thank you.

[BosonMichael]

Originally Posted by Karismah

I have about 6-8 months IT experience (though that was a big fish small pond scenario, with multiple responsibilities and no expertise line).

Being a big fish in a small pond is a *good* thing, usually. When you're the only one responsible for everything, you gain a lot of experience with... *everything*. What did you get to work with?

Not sure what you mean by "no expertise line". Does that mean you didn't focus or specialize on one thing? Again, that's a *good* thing, in my opinion. Specializing is fine... but it limits the potential jobs you can get, particularly at your level of experience.

Originally Posted by Karismah

I have no qualifications. I'm not certain that my employer where I had 6-8 months experience would give me any sort of reference. Plus, that experience was 2-3 years ago.

I'm currently working towards my A+ and Network+. I've studied MCP and CCNA in the past, but have never done the exams. Am pretty strong with Windows XP, Office, etc. And I'm reasonably strong with hardware.

It's too early in your career for the CCNA. Continue with the A+ and knock it out. Then hit Network+, followed by the MCDST. Hold off on anything further until you build up a little more experience.

If you have 6-8 months of real-world business IT experience, sounds like you might be well-suited for a desktop support role, preferably with an employer that will allow you to start getting your feet wet with server administration.

Originally Posted by Karismah

The problem is, my degree has punched a huge hole through my CV. How would employers take that? Would they not judge me negatively?

In what way does your degree punch a hole through your CV? Because it took you 6 years to get it? Then don't list the dates of your education, if you can avoid it... simply list the year of graduation and be done with it!

Originally Posted by Karismah

I am "the local support guy", "on call 24-7" for any friends, friends of friends, friends of friends of friends, family, etc. who need any help with their computers or networks. I do get paid, but you can appreciate that I can't charge close friends and family members and the money is nothing to brag about and nowhere near something that anybody could live on. Though this isn't the standard professional experience, it certainly is experience for me. I've learnt a great deal. Would this be credible enough as IT experience on my CV? The worst thing is, I'm pretty confident on my stuff.

IT experience, to most employers, is IT experience in a business environment, with networked systems and users and data and the problems that all that brings.

That said, if that's all you've got, it's better than nothing. Use what you have to your advantage.

How is being confident on your stuff "the worst thing"? Being confident is a good thing! But to the contrary, it doesn't sound like you are very confident at all, particularly if you truly believe that your degree and your IT knowledge are negatives! Chin up, and smile. You *can* succeed in IT.

Originally Posted by Karismah

I've done up my CV, am dishing it out to recruiters and employers alike, am realistic, hard working and am more motivated than ever but fear that my degree and references may backfire on me.

Will they though? And if so, how do you advise me to go on from here?

I'd be grateful to anyone for any sort of advice they can give regarding this matter.

Thank you.

I guess I need a little clarification as to why your degree would backfire. I had a bachelors degree (in Chemistry!) when I got my first IT job, and I got my degree at the ripe "old" age of 27. Do you think my degree reflected negatively on me, either because of the date or because of the non-IT major? Certainly not! In fact, it's always been looked upon quite favorably by employers!

Most employers won't give anything much of a reference, neither positive nor negative, these days. That said, you might want to find out what sort of a reference, if any, your employers would give, if they are asked.

Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or discouraged. - 1 Chronicles 22:13b. You'll do just fine.

[Karismah]

Hello Michael, thanks for the response.

Being a big fish in a small pond is a *good* thing, usually. When you're the only one responsible for everything, you gain a lot of experience with... *everything*. What did you get to work with?

Not sure what you mean by "no expertise line". Does that mean you didn't focus or specialize on one thing? Again, that's a *good* thing, in my opinion. Specializing is fine... but it limits the potential jobs you can get, particularly at your level of experience.

Yes I feel I didn't specialise on one thing. I just felt that though I got to touch everything, all the way from setting up 2000/2003 servers, file servers, domains, wireless networks, wired networks, pc fixing, IT training, sales, marketing, administration, development, policies, procedures, web design, and quite a few other things, nothing was consistent enough for me to really get in-depth exposure to. It was only a few months of experience and not long enough for me to really get a grip of things within such a short amount of time. I'm glad you think it's good, because I always thought that people prefer someone who has solid experience in specific lines.

It's too early in your career for the CCNA. Continue with the A+ and knock it out. Then hit Network+, followed by the MCDST. Hold off on anything further until you build up a little more experience.

If you have 6-8 months of real-world business IT experience, sounds like you might be well-suited for a desktop support role, preferably with an employer that will allow you to start getting your feet wet with server administration.

I second you with that about the CCNA. I initially had exposure to CCNA at age 16 and gradually built up a bit of knowledge, then got mesmerised by people and training providers alike regarding the prospects. I've always been an IT guy and almost got fooled into the whole get rich quick thing. I am certainly going to work hard on the A+, my Network+ is definitely next, and MCDST is definitely on my list of to do's based on what I've seen and read of it.

In what way does your degree punch a hole through your CV? Because it took you 6 years to get it? Then don't list the dates of your education, if you can avoid it... simply list the year of graduation and be done with it!

What I meant by the degree punching a whole is that I am going to fail in it. Not a nice thing to say, and unfortunately I have to take it on the chin. I didn't emphasise on that much on my initial posting. But to think that firstly I took 6 years to do a degree, and secondly to think that it is an IT related degree just makes it incredibly bad. Doesn't it? How do I prepare for onslaughts in Interviews, or how do I make it look better on my CV? I mean, I did pretty well on the project work, but I messed up on the exams for various reasons. I am still academically strong, and I truly believe that. However, my degree, or lack thereof hardly backs that belief up.

How is being confident on your stuff "the worst thing"? Being confident is a good thing! But to the contrary, it doesn't sound like you are very confident at all, particularly if you truly believe that your degree and your IT knowledge are negatives! Chin up, and smile. You *can* succeed in IT.

What I meant here is that I AM confident with what I can do, and what I meant by it being the "worst thing" is that my lack of qualifications and experience are hardly evidence of it.

I guess I need a little clarification as to why your degree would backfire. I had a bachelors degree (in Chemistry!) when I got my first IT job, and I got my degree at the ripe "old" age of 27. Do you think my degree reflected negatively on me, either because of the date or because of the non-IT major? Certainly not! In fact, it's always been looked upon quite favorably by employers!

Most employers won't give anything much of a reference, neither positive nor negative, these days. That said, you might want to find out what sort of a reference, if any, your employers would give, if they are asked.

My only solid IT experience may not provide me with a reference since I'm not even sure if the company exists, and things were slightly complicated. So that, and my poor degree results would backfire I'm sure.

However, I thank you for the words of encouragement. My regret is that I should have been somewhere now with the time I've had. I could have had 5 years solid experience. It's always hard to digest it when I know that I've always been in IT and never made the most of it. It's not even a career change.

[BosonMichael]

Originally Posted by Karismah

Yes I feel I didn't specialise on one thing. I just felt that though I got to touch everything, all the way from setting up 2000/2003 servers, file servers, domains, wireless networks, wired networks, pc fixing, IT training, sales, marketing, administration, development, policies, procedures, web design, and quite a few other things, nothing was consistent enough for me to really get in-depth exposure to. It was only a few months of experience and not long enough for me to really get a grip of things within such a short amount of time. I'm glad you think it's good, because I always thought that people prefer someone who has solid experience in specific lines.

Not everyone. I've been more of a generalist, and my employers have *loved* it. They knew that they could throw just about *anything* at me and I'd be able to handle it.

If you want to specialize, start specializing. Nothing wrong with that. But if you don't want to, don't feel like you are forced to do so... because it is possible to be very successful being a jack-of-all-trades.

Originally Posted by Karismah

I second you with that about the CCNA. I initially had exposure to CCNA at age 16 and gradually built up a bit of knowledge, then got mesmerised by people and training providers alike regarding the prospects. I've always been an IT guy and almost got fooled into the whole get rich quick thing. I am certainly going to work hard on the A+, my Network+ is definitely next, and MCDST is definitely on my list of to do's based on what I've seen and read of it.

Yes - it's quite easy to fall into that trap.

Don't get me wrong - that advanced knowledge is *great*, even now. But the higher-level certifications aren't helpful to you at this point.

Good deal on the pursuit of the A+, Network+, and MCDST - I wish you luck!

Originally Posted by Karismah

What I meant by the degree punching a whole is that I am going to fail in it. Not a nice thing to say, and unfortunately I have to take it on the chin. I didn't emphasise on that much on my initial posting. But to think that firstly I took 6 years to do a degree, and secondly to think that it is an IT related degree just makes it incredibly bad. Doesn't it? How do I prepare for onslaughts in Interviews, or how do I make it look better on my CV? I mean, I did pretty well on the project work, but I messed up on the exams for various reasons. I am still academically strong, and I truly believe that. However, my degree, or lack thereof hardly backs that belief up.

I'm not sure I understand. If you failed, then you don't have a degree, right? Or, if you have a degree, then you didn't fail. If those aren't true, then what am I missing? Are you simply saying that your grades were poor?

Why would it be bad that you have an IT related degree?

There are plenty of people out there who take many years to do a degree. The fact that you perservered and GOT your degree shows that you aren't a quitter. Many others aren't as fortunate... they abandon their dreams of getting a degree. You got yours.

If your grades are poor, there's not much that can be done. Best you can do is to list your degree and not list your grades. Same thing with the 6-year time period... list your degree, list your graduation date, but don't list the amount of time it took. The CV is yours - craft it to your advantage!!!

Originally Posted by Karismah

What I meant here is that I AM confident with what I can do, and what I meant by it being the "worst thing" is that my lack of qualifications and experience are hardly evidence of it.

Okay, fine... so get qualifications and experience. It won't happen overnight. Build it over time. Eventually, you WILL have qualifications and experience.

Originally Posted by Karismah

My only solid IT experience may not provide me with a reference since I'm not even sure if the company exists, and things were slightly complicated. So that, and my poor degree results would backfire I'm sure.

If you're sure that your poor degree results would backfire, then you don't have confidence.

You don't need a degree to succeed in IT. It's helpful... but it's absolutely... not... required.

If you don't have a company that will provide you with a reference, then start over. Get an entry-level job, and start building verifiable experience. There's really no other option, is there?

Originally Posted by Karismah

However, I thank you for the words of encouragement. My regret is that I should have been somewhere now with the time I've had. I could have had 5 years solid experience. It's always hard to digest it when I know that I've always been in IT and never made the most of it. It's not even a career change.

You are somewhere. You're better prepared than you were before. You cannot change the past - so stop kicking yourself over it. Look positively towards the future, and grow from the experience.

Dude, I could have started in IT right after getting out of the Army in 1992. But I didn't. I wanted to be a research chemist, and so I went to college. I got my degree in 1997 and spent 6 months looking for a job. I found one for $25,000 per year... washing out test tubes. What?!? How could I prove my worth to a company by washing out test tubes?!? That's not chemistry!!! So I got my first "real" IT job in 1998 at age 28.

Do I regret getting my degree? No. Would I have had a more successful career with 6 more years of experience? Probably. But then I probably wouldn't have ever gotten my degree... and I've since gotten jobs that *did* give preference to degreed candidates. Take heart in that you got it... for bad or for good, you GOT it. And what's done is done. Move forward with the cards you've been dealt, because that's your only option. In 10 years, when you're successful, the struggle will be a distant memory... and you probably wouldn't want to change the past for anything. ;)

[Karismah]

Your advice was brilliant. Thank you Michael. But I failed to clearly indicate my circumstances regarding my degree. It's not poor results, it's not a degree. I failed trying to do a degree.

Why I bring about the 6 years scenario is that it took me 6 years to do a degree, and I still failed. Employers will question the gap in my CV.

And in regard to my IT-related degree backfiring on me, well they would wonder how good (or bad) I actually am when I failef in a degree in a subject area that I wish to pursue my career in. They'd think that this guy has failed his computer science degree after a "6 year struggle". What hope does he have.

No matter what, I acknowledge my situation and the difficult road ahead. I also have belief in myself that I can and will succeed. I just need to somehow try to cover up this mess of mine.

See, I don't have a degree. So what was I doing for those 6 years? If I passed, I would have done exactly as you described. But I failed. I'm just trying to get my head round to how I'd handle interview situations when my CV gaps comes into it.

I guess it'd be silly of me to state I attended degree but didnt complete it in my CV? Or would that be shooting myself in the foot.

If I failed in, say, a chemistry degree and wanted to pursue IT because chemistry wasn't my thing, that would have been a different situation altogether.

I just need to prepare myself and my CV in interview and application situations. Do I cover up my failed degree course? Do I say I was travelling? Or do I say I attempted, failed, and moved on. The latter just looks so bad.

But no matter what, I'm studying for my A+ as we speak, and no matter what, IT is my line. I just need to be prepared to answer questions.

And about your comment on jack-of-all-trades, I've always been someone where, if I've been asked or given something, I do it, and if not, go and learn it, then do it. And it doesn't even stop at IT. As an example, I had to look into beauty and therapy for someone. I decided to study a bit, and then advised them on what I learnt, even though it was their field. I guess that's something I can somehow convey on my CV too, the ability to learn and grasp concepts quickly...?

Either way, thank you for your time and advice Michael. I hope you understand my situation better this time round regarding my failed degree and CV, and perhaps give me advice on that.

[BosonMichael]

Originally Posted by Karismah

Your advice was brilliant. Thank you Michael. But I failed to clearly indicate my circumstances regarding my degree. It's not poor results, it's not a degree. I failed trying to do a degree.

Thank you - it is my pleasure to assist.

Originally Posted by Karismah

Why I bring about the 6 years scenario is that it took me 6 years to do a degree, and I still failed. Employers will question the gap in my CV.

And in regard to my IT-related degree backfiring on me, well they would wonder how good (or bad) I actually am when I failef in a degree in a subject area that I wish to pursue my career in. They'd think that this guy has failed his computer science degree after a "6 year struggle". What hope does he have.

No matter what, I acknowledge my situation and the difficult road ahead. I also have belief in myself that I can and will succeed. I just need to somehow try to cover up this mess of mine.

See, I don't have a degree. So what was I doing for those 6 years? If I passed, I would have done exactly as you described. But I failed. I'm just trying to get my head round to how I'd handle interview situations when my CV gaps comes into it.

Then don't mention the degree, and don't mention the employers before the degree. BAM! Instant gap removal!

That doesn't leave you much to start with... but it's likely better than mentioning something that is worse than nothing, right?

Originally Posted by Karismah

I guess it'd be silly of me to state I attended degree but didnt complete it in my CV? Or would that be shooting myself in the foot.

Yes, I believe it would be silly to state that you pursued a degree that you do not have. That'd be like listing that you studied for the A+ exams but failed them. Why would you do that?

Originally Posted by Karismah

If I failed in, say, a chemistry degree and wanted to pursue IT because chemistry wasn't my thing, that would have been a different situation altogether.

I somewhat disagree. As an employer, if I saw that you failed to get ANY degree, regardless of the field of study, then I'll wonder how you will apply yourself in IT.

The CV should be designed to sell yourself and your abilities. Listing that you failed to get a degree doesn't sell yourself. In fact, it does quite the opposite!

Originally Posted by Karismah

I just need to prepare myself and my CV in interview and application situations. Do I cover up my failed degree course? Do I say I was travelling? Or do I say I attempted, failed, and moved on. The latter just looks so bad.

What were you doing besides studying for your degree? Were you working at all, even in a part-time job? Is there anything you can say where you wouldn't be lying, but you wouldn't have to reveal the degree?

Originally Posted by Karismah

But no matter what, I'm studying for my A+ as we speak, and no matter what, IT is my line. I just need to be prepared to answer questions.

And about your comment on jack-of-all-trades, I've always been someone where, if I've been asked or given something, I do it, and if not, go and learn it, then do it. And it doesn't even stop at IT. As an example, I had to look into beauty and therapy for someone. I decided to study a bit, and then advised them on what I learnt, even though it was their field. I guess that's something I can somehow convey on my CV too, the ability to learn and grasp concepts quickly...?

Yep, things like that work well. On an older version of my resume, I listed the following bullet points:
• Easily trainable on any software package/system, quick learner
• Analytical thinker, good attention to detail, excellent troubleshooting and diagnostic skills

[Karismah]

Originally Posted by BosonMichael

Thank you - it is my pleasure to assist.



Then don't mention the degree, and don't mention the employers before the degree. BAM! Instant gap removal!

That doesn't leave you much to start with... but it's likely better than mentioning something that is worse than nothing, right?



Yes, I believe it would be silly to state that you pursued a degree that you do not have. That'd be like listing that you studied for the A+ exams but failed them. Why would you do that?



I somewhat disagree. As an employer, if I saw that you failed to get ANY degree, regardless of the field of study, then I'll wonder how you will apply yourself in IT.

The CV should be designed to sell yourself and your abilities. Listing that you failed to get a degree doesn't sell yourself. In fact, it does quite the opposite!



What were you doing besides studying for your degree? Were you working at all, even in a part-time job? Is there anything you can say where you wouldn't be lying, but you wouldn't have to reveal the degree?



Yep, things like that work well. On an older version of my resume, I listed the following bullet points:
• Easily trainable on any software package/system, quick learner
• Analytical thinker, good attention to detail, excellent troubleshooting and diagnostic skills

Hi Michael,

Hmm... Leave the degree out and everything that preceded it? That's taking away everything. Tough decision. I did very well in my degree till the final exams, where due to various issues, I failed. Perhaps I could tell the truth and hope employer understands my situation. My projects were good. My group projects were good. The experience was something.

Gosh, this is difficult... Do I just completely deny I went to no university at all? The good thing is, I've always been in employment in some capacity throughout my time at university...

So ( I know I keep repeating this but it's quite difficult to just do), you feel I should just leave university out altogether and that would be of more benefit than putting my degree down, stating I did excellent in my projects, and then stating I didn't complete the degree for certain reasons?

If I posted my CV for viewing, would anyone, including yourself have a quick glance at it and give me some advice, i.e. whether I look employable, how I could improve, etc?

Thanks again for your help.

[Markyboyt]

Originally Posted by Karismah

Hi Michael,

Hmm... Leave the degree out and everything that preceded it? That's taking away everything. Tough decision. I did very well in my degree till the final exams, where due to various issues, I failed. Perhaps I could tell the truth and hope employer understands my situation. My projects were good. My group projects were good. The experience was something.

Gosh, this is difficult... Do I just completely deny I went to no university at all? The good thing is, I've always been in employment in some capacity throughout my time at university...

So ( I know I keep repeating this but it's quite difficult to just do), you feel I should just leave university out altogether and that would be of more benefit than putting my degree down, stating I did excellent in my projects, and then stating I didn't complete the degree for certain reasons?

If I posted my CV for viewing, would anyone, including yourself have a quick glance at it and give me some advice, i.e. whether I look employable, how I could improve, etc?

Thanks again for your help.

So with a degree do they not let you resit any of the tests if you fail them?

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by Karismah

Gosh, this is difficult... Do I just completely deny I went to no university at all? The good thing is, I've always been in employment in some capacity throughout my time at university...

Can you not just finish the degree mate?

[Karismah]

Originally Posted by Markyboyt

So with a degree do they not let you resit any of the tests if you fail them?

Unfortunately, this may sound very wasteful and ridiculous, but I've had my chances to resit.

Originally Posted by Sparky

Can you not just finish the degree mate?

I've finished the degree, but haven't passed it. I really don't want to do another year, not that they'd allow me to do so anyway.

This degree has been a real pain for quite a while for me. I lost interest a long while ago and continued to do something. I finished project work, did really well, etc. etc.

But when I took a year out at the end of my second year, my interest just went. I came back, did my final year. But had bereavement in family during exam time and didn't sit exams. Come next year, with other issues in the mix, I attempted the exams half heartedly and failed. Now here I am, having completed the exams, and 100% sure I've failed.

I had no interest, and had quite a bit going on, and truly, the degree was least of my worries. Now I just want to move on with life without this degree hampering my progress so much.

I always thought a degree is my only way to success until I started to open my eyes and realise it so isn't true. I attempted my degree for partly that reason and continued to try (with not much interest), because family pressure required me to do so.

Here I am now, in a situation where I really should not be in, but unfortunately am!

I just want to move on and feel I can. My degree could have made life easier for me, as I see my friends who studied with me doing really well for themselves. But I don't have a degree. So, though I don't have a degree, I don't want any CV gaps or degree failure issues to haunt me in my search for a new job and settle in my career.