Tables or Frames?

[Alex Wright]

Originally Posted by Bluerinse

Source..

http://www.google.com/support/webmas...s&topic=&type=

Thanks for the link, very helpful.

[BrotherBill]

Sorry. Can't help much at this point.

Fergal's link got a little messed up in the paste. Wasn't too hard to find though and some interesting reading. Here's the proper link.

http://searchenginewatch.com/showPage.html?page=2167901

[Fergal1982]

Originally Posted by BrotherBill

Sorry. Can't help much at this point.

Fergal's link got a little messed up in the paste. Wasn't too hard to find though and some interesting reading. Here's the proper link.

http://searchenginewatch.com/showPage.html?page=2167901

oops, corrected

[Alex Wright]

Originally Posted by Fergal1982

Both the link I provided, and Bluerinse's link from google confirm the case. They dont necessarily like frames, and its true that some engines arent capable of dealing with frames, but they can still be dealt with.

It may just be one of those things thats passed into legend in a company. A policy among the developers was made to not do it because it could cause some problems, and over time that has evolved in the minds of the developers that its not done because the cant deal with frames.

Yes, that seems like a distinct possibility.

Originally Posted by Mitzs

IThurts here is the link I am using right now for CSS. I like it alot and how they explain it, maybe it will help you to. I belive they have html on there too have not looked for it yet though.

http://www.west

civ.com/style_master/academy/css_tutorial/index.html

Thanks Mitzs!

Originally Posted by BosonMichael

Meh, I don't like frames much. Makes it difficult to see what page you're on if the address doesn't change in the address bar... royal pain in the butt, sometimes.

It would certainly bare that interpretation!

Originally Posted by Fergal1982

Framed pages can still be found by search engines. Spiders dont just follow a trail of links, they root around in the directories too. Hence why, if you dont want a particular area of your site listed, you can use files targeted at the spiders to tell them which areas not to search.

If you are clever about it too, you can even have the framed load when a direct link to the page is used.

This is a good start

Ahhh!

Originally Posted by ThomasMc

Another no vote for frames, Link

It's unanimous!

[IThurts]

Sorry to be a party pooper in re to search engine optimisations but could someone help me with the question i originally asked (most recent post from myself).

Thanks,

[Alex Wright]

Originally Posted by IThurts

Sorry to be a party pooper in re to search engine optimisations but could someone help me with the question i originally asked (most recent post from myself).

Thanks,

Sorry mate,

I didn't mean to cause the thread to drift off topic.

Unfortunately as someone with next-to-no knowledge of CSS himself, I'm in no position to answer the two questions posed. Someone, I'm sure, will be along to help answer your questions shortly.

Good luck!

- Alex

[Mitzs]

Originally Posted by IThurts

Ok thanks for the replies.
Two questions i would like clarification on if you would please:

1)Would i be right in saying that in order to create different "sections" of a webpage using CSS, ie; its links section on the left and the main content in the middle, i would have to use <DIV> tags (blocked elements) in order to seperate the two.

2)The last time i did websites/webpages, tables were used for this, so CSS is very new to me. I would use the tables to seperate the different sections of a page. As i understand it from this thread and other sources, CSS are used to create a page layout and its various sections, which pose great advantages. ie; the ability to use external style sheets to edit your style and apply/link this .css page to your html pages to change the layout in its entirety.

Thanks alot for the help in advance and please keep the answers in "dummy" terms please

<div> Description:
The <div> element defines logical divisions within the document. This means that when you use a <div> element, you are indicating that the enclosed content is a specific section of the page. The <div> element is typically used in XHTML+CSS documents to position portions of the page.

http://webdesign.about.com/od/htmltags/p/bltags_div.htm

It all I can tell you is the best thing to do is to pratices with those tags and see how they affect your page. I am going though this css tutorial from html goodies with the help of that first link I gave you to explain what they are doing. It may say it is for newbie but they don't explain it well for a newbie in my opinion. I printed the whole thing out which was about 21 pages. And I'm creating each web page so I can see the differents in them as they add more and more css to each sample. Now if your in a hurry you can just cut and paste but your not going to really learn it like that. Take the time and type each web page out and use the first link I gave you if they start doing something you don't understand. Good luck.

[Bluerinse]

Originally Posted by IThurts

Ok thanks for the replies.
Two questions i would like clarification on if you would please:

1)Would i be right in saying that in order to create different "sections" of a webpage using CSS, ie; its links section on the left and the main content in the middle, i would have to use <DIV> tags (blocked elements) in order to seperate the two.

2)The last time i did websites/webpages, tables were used for this, so CSS is very new to me. I would use the tables to seperate the different sections of a page. As i understand it from this thread and other sources, CSS are used to create a page layout and its various sections, which pose great advantages. ie; the ability to use external style sheets to edit your style and apply/link this .css page to your html pages to change the layout in its entirety.

Thanks alot for the help in advance and please keep the answers in "dummy" terms please

I tried to find a good simple explanation and came up with this post on aother forum. it seems to explain it nicely..

Tables were meant to make columns of tabular data. they are very controlled and linear.

Div on the other hand are free. You can put anything anywhere in that Div, no horizontal or vertical columns to limit your positioning. So a table is like a tool box with all those little compartments that cannot change size, you can only re-arange them. A Div is like a empty box, you can move any element anywhere and resize it as you wish, no limitations. Place one elemet at exactly92 pixels from the wall if you like.

So in your body you create a outer Div, the rest of the web site is built in that. Your banner is in one Div, menu is another Div, different boxes are different divs and content is a seperate div. All these divs can be placed individually anywhere on the web page.

The link you give is a perfect design for this.

Other advantages:

When you name each Div seperatly with a ID for the CSS, that ID can be used as a target for scripts or internal links as well.
When you take away the CSS (important for those with disabilities) it degrades into a simple vertical text document, where tables will still have a layout that can make the reading of the page by screenreaders difficult to understand as it skips in a unlogical manner through the page.
Those with disabilities can change the look of the site more effectively to meet their needs
By using Divs, you can redefine the Div names with new positions, colors etc and in that manner completely change your web site design by loading a different CSS without bothering to change the source code. Either create different designs for those with disabilities or maybe just a special Valentines, Christmas, Halloween design for a few days...


Divs are the smart way to design web sites and make maintenance alot easier.


Throwing Tables Out the Window

Source..
http://www.killersites.com/mvnforum/...ad?thread=3796

[Mitzs]

Thanks blue! Reps for that link.

[Bluerinse]

Originally Posted by Mitzs

Thanks blue! Reps for that link.

You're most welcome and thanks!!

[richardw]

the <div> tag is for 'divisions' of the document, site, so that you can seperate them into logical sections.
These are then used with CSS to style & position those sections, eg your nav section, content etc, where they would be:
<div class="nav"></div>
& your CSS would be:
<style>
.nav { position & style attributes }
</style>

Its also best to use lower-case for all your tags, as that is what is required for xhtml & xml.

[csx]

I'm late but... frames are awful! good for some things but for most of the majority of the time don't use them!

Tables or CSS would be a lot better.

Chris