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Sometimes, just knowing things exist is enough to lead you in the correct direction when searching for a solution.
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This is true, but if a person's knowledge is that thin it takes a long time figure things out sometimes. I just think a person could get better value for their time and money in studying other areas.
Behold, the turtle. He makes progress only when he sticks his neck out.
This is true, but if a person's knowledge is that thin it takes a long time figure things out sometimes. I just think a person could get better value for their time and money in studying other areas.
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This is true... but as you know, the ______+ certifications indicate that a person has only the foundations of knowledge on that subject... they're not meant to show that you're an expert. To indicate a more advanced level of knowledge regarding a particular vendor's technology, one should pursue a certification other than ______+.
I guess what I'm saying is... I agree with your general assessment of the depth of the Server+ certification, but slightly disagree with your assessment of the certification's usefulness.
This is true... but as you know, the ______+ certifications indicate that a person has only the foundations of knowledge on that subject... they're not meant to show that you're an expert. To indicate a more advanced level of knowledge regarding a particular vendor's technology, one should pursue a certification other than ______+.
I guess what I'm saying is... I agree with your general assessment of the depth of the Server+ certification, but slightly disagree with your assessment of the certification's usefulness.
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OK. I guess I'm just looking at things from a different perspective. I just think that if something isn't going to make me useful in the day-to-day world, then my time and money is better spent elsewhere.
Behold, the turtle. He makes progress only when he sticks his neck out.
OK. I guess I'm just looking at things from a different perspective. I just think that if something isn't going to make me useful in the day-to-day world, then my time and money is better spent elsewhere.
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Knowledge is knowledge, and certifications are certifications. Knowledge is what makes you useful in the day-to-day world. Although you may learn something that is real-world useful while studying for certifications, certifications exist to impress an employer, and that's about it.
Knowledge is knowledge, and certifications are certifications. Knowledge is what makes you useful in the day-to-day world. Although you may learn something that is real-world useful while studying for certifications, certifications exist to impress an employer, and that's about it.
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The problem is, and it's the school of hard knocks that has taught me this, certifications don't impress anyone. Knowledge, experience, skills both soft and technological, desire and willingness to work, track record, and attitude are all given much more weight than certs. If you score high in those areas and 0 in certs you'll find a job much faster than if you score high in certs and low in those areas.
Behold, the turtle. He makes progress only when he sticks his neck out.
The problem is, and it's the school of hard knocks that has taught me this, certifications don't impress anyone. Knowledge, experience, skills both soft and technological, desire and willingness to work, track record, and attitude are all given much more weight than certs. If you score high in those areas and 0 in certs you'll find a job much faster than if you score high in certs and low in those areas.
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Certifications do impress employers... just not as much as experience does - not even close to as much as experience does. Certification can be a differentiator between two people who are quite similar in skills. I use it to determine as somewhat of a "tie-breaker" to show who has more drive and determination (embodied in the "desire" portion of your assessment). Plus, many employers use them as prerequisites for employment, and even if I weren't a certification training provider, I would agree with the practice of using them as such.
Certifications may not be as valuable in the Linux world, but they're certainly advantageous most everywhere else... and particularly when someone is just starting out.
Certifications do impress employers... just not as much as experience does - not even close to as much as experience does. Certification can be a differentiator between two people who are quite similar in skills. I use it to determine as somewhat of a "tie-breaker" to show who has more drive and determination (embodied in the "desire" portion of your assessment). Plus, many employers use them as prerequisites for employment, and even if I weren't a certification training provider, I would agree with the practice of using them as such.
Certifications may not be as valuable in the Linux world, but they're certainly advantageous most everywhere else... and particularly when someone is just starting out.
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If you say so. That is not my experience with them though. I didn't brain dump my certs, and I couldn't find a Windows-oriented job to save my life. My Linux skills, plus my willingness and ability to learn just about anything set on my table, did. So, forgive me if I don't buy into that viewpoint.
I had a lot of Windows interviews, but got beaten out every time, not by people with more certs, but by people with more experience and a better skill set. Certs never got me squat, except for the health problems I got from working so hard and so many hours to get them.....
Behold, the turtle. He makes progress only when he sticks his neck out.
I think you're both right (how's that for playing both sides of the fence?). True, in certain realms...particularly CompTIA's A+ and Microsoft's certification line, certifications do have an impact on employer perceptions. In the Linux world, this isn't quite true. In fact, I don't think I've ever encountered anyone working with Linux in any way who actually possessed any Linux certifications.
From Microsoft's point of view, their certifications are part of their industry. They make money off of creating and administering their tests, off of the cert books published by Microsoft Press, and probably in other ways I can't imagine. This isn't evil, it's just part of their business strategy. Linux isn't one thing the way Microsoft is. Sure, there are Linux companies and I'm sure Novell and Red Hat would like to have their Linux related certifications make the same impact as Microsoft's but they just don't seem to be doing that. Vendor neutral Linux certs such as the LPI series have a good reputation, but most of the "hot" press releases I read about LPI have to do with promoted themselves in countries outside of the US and Canada.
The nature and character of "Linux" doesn't lend itself to the mass-market certification industry the way Microsoft certifications do. I don't think any organization that "administers" Linux in its many forms really thinks in that direction.
"That detective, is the right question. Program terminated".
If you say so. That is not my experience with them though. I didn't brain dump my certs, and I couldn't find a Windows-oriented job to save my life. My Linux skills, plus my willingness and ability to learn just about anything set on my table, did. So, forgive me if I don't buy into that viewpoint.
I had a lot of Windows interviews, but got beaten out every time, not by people with more certs, but by people with more experience and a better skill set. Certs never got me squat, except for the health problems I got from working so hard and so many hours to get them.....
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Then you experienced exactly what I described. Certifications are fine... but they'll always get beaten by experience. They won't give you squat, except an edge over people with SIMILAR experience levels. They won't give you an edge over someone who has more experience.
I think you're both right (how's that for playing both sides of the fence?). True, in certain realms...particularly CompTIA's A+ and Microsoft's certification line, certifications do have an impact on employer perceptions. In the Linux world, this isn't quite true. In fact, I don't think I've ever encountered anyone working with Linux in any way who actually possessed any Linux certifications.
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Well, I've got Linux+, and I administered an occasional Linux server here and there... but Linux administration wasn't even 2% of my job... so I probably don't fit your description. Linux servers don't really require much babysitting... at least, not in the roles I used them for (firewall, monitoring server, mail screen, etc.).
Actually, I was thinking more of developers. I once worked for a company that developed an operating system based on Slackware that, when installed on the proper hardware, provided a multi-purpose networking and server appliance...almost literally a small business IT infrastructure in a single box...at a fraction of the cost of systems built by Microsoft because it was all open source applications.
While the "babysitting" gig may have been light, the skills required to develop the software took a bit of doing.
"That detective, is the right question. Program terminated".
18-Dec-2007, 08:50 PM
To indicate a more advanced level of knowledge regarding a particular vendor's technology, one should pursue a certification other than ______+. 
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